How To Build A Music Community with Derrick Gee
"If you’re thinking of it as marketing, you’re already in trouble”
Hello! First of all, thank you so much for the feedback on the previous Future Filter, "Was Bandcamp the Answer All Along?" It seemed to touch a nerve and got a lot of people sharing, talking, and commenting. Obviously, there’s a lot of crossover between Bandcamp and SubStack, which I hadn’t really thought about until that piece. With that in mind, and with the words of this Future Filter’s guest still ringing in my ears, I’ve decided to turn my paid subscriptions back on.
To be clear, nothing will change; Future Filter will continue to be semi-ad hoc, as and when inspiration strikes or a conversation opportunity arises. However, what I’ve learned is that people do want to support someone’s work, and it doesn’t need to be a transactional affair, i.e., £X is equal to X amount of content. While this may be a very small number of people, as we discovered with the Bandcamp piece, the smallest part of your community can have the biggest impact.
Oh and btw we just tipped over 1,000 subs as I was writing this up so thank you! Now on to this edition of Future Filter.
How to Build a Music Community with Derrick Gee
It’s difficult to label Derrick Gee. The usual terms – content creator, curator, DJ, or the dreaded ‘influencer’ – all dramatically undersell his contribution to online music culture. Despite often discussing, exploring and performing more nuanced artists and sub-genres, Gee’s passion for music is contagious, bringing huge audiences into his world through live streams, his Patreon, DJ sets, music reccs, memes and now a new live tour.
Derrick’s calm demeanour and quiet expertise are a welcome contrast to the algorithmic shouting match that social media has become. This is music discovery with personality, passion and sincerity, where curious fans are brought along on the journey rather than preached to from the pulpit. His 700k+ followers on Instagram and 400k+ on TikTok reflect an appetite for human-led music discovery and are a reflection of the fatigue and frustrations that currently consume online music communities. Music, and with it culture, has been funnelled into the control of a handful of companies, leaving listeners often feeling powerless and apathetic in the face of the daily tsunami of music-as-content.
Gee offers respite from the noise. His new series, where guests come to his house and play and discuss records they love, has seen the likes of Jamie xx, Max Richter, Jyoty, MJ Lenderman and XL’s Richard Russell pass through his home studio. The format shows both Gee’s and his guests’ appreciation for longer-form interviews and taste exploration, topics they might struggle to explore elsewhere. Its relaxed tone reflects Gee’s own affable nature, again a welcome contrast to the bait-powered bollocks that peppers YouTube on a daily basis.
But there was never a grand plan. As Gee discusses in our wide-ranging interview, he actually deleted his social media accounts in 2018, only reactivating them to reconnect with old friends during the COVID pandemic. Approaching socials as a genuine connection tool rather than a marketing platform might seem like a simple distinction, but it’s at the core of Gee’s thought process around ‘content’ and community.
In our chat, we went deep on what it takes to build community in 2025, Patreon strategies (or lack of), why blogs and music journos struggled to transition to short form video and why he doesn’t feel sorry for artists who hate social media. Thank you SO much to Derrick, who gave a lot of his time very generously. I loved speaking to him, and his insights, passion and belief in what he does are extremely refreshing in the age of cookie-cutter advice for artists. Dig in and please share if you enjoy it.
FF: Let’s start from the start. What’s the Derrick Gee origin story?
Derrick Gee: “I studied graphic design, so I’ve always had a visual eye. I got a job in TV and worked there for ten years, doing digital shows for MySpace back in 2008, as well as developing TV shows and pitching them to networks. So I learned a lot about storytelling and production, though I was never in front of the camera, and I never wanted to be. Midway through that I started a radio show and put it on Mixcloud cause I looked up to Gilles Peterson and figured I had a taste of my own and maybe there would be people around the world with similar taste to me.
“That led me to be an NTS resident from 2016 to 2020, which I was doing from Sydney [at first]. I moved to London in 2017 and worked at Mixcloud in the brand partnerships team. That really up-skilled my knowledge of brands from an agency perspective. Then I moved to New York and worked as the Creative Director of a label called 88rising – which was an Asian American label – and launched a 24/7 Asian artist radio station of SiriusXM. I came back to Australia during COVID and managed a rap group and did some freelance creative directing for labels and artists.
“You stir all that up and you get me. I didn’t know at the time, but all of that experience speaks to why I can do this potentially more successfully than some, because I have a video production, design, storytelling, radio, agency, artist, and label perspectives on things.
“The origin story of my posting is that I posted a video in response to a trend that was ‘What’s unique to a niche audience but means nothing to anyone else?’ and I had these big speakers in my lounge so I posted them and it got hundreds of thousands of views and people started asking me questions and liked how I approached my love for music, my interest in the music industry, and hi-fi too.
“I never wanted to do this. I actually deleted all my social media in 2018, and only restarted during COVID when I lost contact with all my friends. Not having any desire to do it meant I came at it very authentically. People often say that about my content: ‘genuine’, ‘authentic’ etc. But the footing was never ‘How am I going to make it on social media?’, I was like ‘Oh, people like this. Cool. Why don’t I ask some more questions, why don’t I share some more stories?’ And I still try to follow that mantra, where everything I do isn’t about what people want, or what will be successful, but what excites me.”
Has it been harder to retain that mantra as it’s grown? Because there are algorithmic elements to this, where you have to play the discovery game etc. Or do you feel that’s not the case?
“Yes and no. I think it’s overblown, especially in the music industry in terms of ‘You’ve gotta do this’, ‘You’ve gotta be consistent’. Look at my stuff, it’s not consistent at all. I just launch something cause I think it’s cool, and if I think it’s cool it generally works. There are devices, narratives, elements, and visual cues that help things. [For example], I’ll do a video on TikTok where I’m talking to camera for four minutes about the music industry and that can get lots of views.
“Not having any desire to do it meant I came at it very authentically.”
“I can also make really pithy one-minute videos about combining five different trends, and I script the hell out of that, I know what my hook is, I edit it really tightly, so I definitely know what works to engage people. But I want to show different versions of myself, so I’m not trying to chase that one-minute hooky video that gets lots of views, cause then I’ll just be chasing a story that I don’t care about. I try to just base it on my gut.”
When did you launch your ‘Private Listening Club’ Patreon and what was the thought process behind it?
“A year and a half ago. I saw the evolution of brand collaborations and fan funding, and I think being able to maintain my independence [was appealing]. Relying on brand funding is quite unpredictable. Around this time [leading into summer], one can make a bag doing lots of stuff, but come October you might not get one email. I was trying to get ahead of that and add something of value that would help further my career.
“It’s been more challenging than I thought in terms of going from mass engagement to people wanting to pay for your output. I’m learning a lot, and it’s gone from strength to strength, but it wasn’t like ‘I’ve got tonnes of followers, this will convert to lots of money’. But it also depends on what I do – it’s not a podcast, it’s music discovery, it’s listening. Paying for that is a new thing, aside from streaming.”
How did you decide how to price the Patreon and what was the reason behind that? Because your content is a little more nebulous in terms of its value – it’s community, it’s curation and discovery, it’s exclusivity, it’s engagement but that’s not as easy to put a specific price on.
“I’m still figuring it out to be honest. I did think about the value of it a lot, and for the people who are superfans of what I do, it’s intimate curation – an hour of video content – I was very clear that it was always gonna be on video first to have a different experience. All the songs that I’ve helped go viral, or I play in DJ sets and people want to know the ID of, are in the show [Solid Air] because that’s how I discover and share music.
“When I listened to Gilles Peterson back in the day, I illegally downloaded it from some Russian ripping service. I was kind of thinking about that kid. If someone is super obsessive about discovering music, and I might be that person for them, what would they want?
“I had a two-dollar tier for audio-only but I got rid of that. Now it’s five, 10 and 25 – the 25 is just a silly one for people who want to do that.“I recently launched a private [24/7] stream of all Solid Air shows, and that’s ticked things up a lot. It was something I wanted to do because it was a good use of the content and it adds more value to people’s experience because they can get the show, but they can also just press play and listen to it in the background and discover stuff. And my little graph has gone up quite quickly [since].”
Do you feel that pressure to just add more and more content to keep people subscribed? If you were a company you’d be watching the churn like a hawk and constantly thinking about new features and how to keep that rate down. Or is that a toxic mentality when it comes to community building on Patreon?
“I don’t think about churn at all. I think about the same way I do on social media – there’s always a new audience for what I do, there’s always new ways to promote things. Doing the live stream wasn’t to add value to the Patreon, [it was] because I can see where content is going and I think live is the future. But when I had guests coming through, I hit a bit of a juncture. When I had Jamie XX in, [I knew] he wouldn’t want to do this to a small group of people on Patreon, so how do I communicate that so it’s not like ‘Sorry guys, this is now [free] on YouTube’. I’m still working through that.
“The next guest I have on, I’m gonna do a cutdown version on YouTube, and the full version on Patreon. And that might lead people to say ‘Oh, you gave us the full version before, now we’re not getting that,’ but I’m also thinking about retention on YouTube. An hour-plus is gonna retain less than a 35-minute video, and if you wanna see the rest, go on Patreon.
“But I’m constantly thinking ‘You’re paying for this, so I want you to feel valued.’ I’m not catering to the churn, it’ll come naturally. I’ve got plenty of ideas I can do as it evolves.”
I’m interested in the guests side. Music journalism is suffering right now, and it’s unlikely to really rebound in the traditional sense, so there’s less places available for artists to tell their stories in any kind of depth. Do you think artists want more time and space to tell their stories, that aren’t just short-form video, so they're drawn to shows like yours?
“I don’t think so, I think they know they can get reach from my audience. But I’ve earned credibility where the artists know about me and respect what I do, but they’re also like: ‘Great, this is a lot more promotion than I can get in most other places.’ Rolling Stone has a massive audience worldwide but they’ve kind of become the house of highlights of music content. Just say you’ve got ID or DAZED or Rolling Stone Australia and they say: ‘Do you wanna sit down for 20 minutes for an interview?’ Or, you can sit down with me for an hour and get 10 pieces of content out of it, some of which might go viral.
“I do get approaches every day from artists who want to be on the show because it’s so unorthodox and quite pure. It’s a side of artists they don’t usually get to show in many other mediums. Of course, there’s Desert Island Discs, and there are radio shows, but this thing that I’m proud of feels new-ish; talking over music in video form. There have been some big pop stars who I’ve declined that wanted to do it because they don’t usually get to show their taste, their listening ear. But I needed to be careful with who I had on in the early stage.”
How do you foster your community? How engaged are you, and how much pressure do you feel to engage with the community constantly?
“I do make sure I’m present. I will like every comment that I can, just to acknowledge that they’re paying and I’ve seen it. It has DMs and you can message me. I shout out people in the show. I recently started doing this thing called ‘Community Curator’ where they can send in videos and recommend songs, and that’s part of the show now too.”
You mentioned you weren’t in front of the camera at your TV job. Do you sympathise with artists, and other curators, who don’t feel comfortable in front of the lens but feel like they’re forced into constantly creating content?
“I actually don’t feel sorry for artists – I know that sounds callous, but it’s not coming from a place of ‘I’m good at it, and you should be too’. I think the perspective and the mindset is incorrect for the majority of people who push back. ‘I’m an artist, I shouldn’t have to do this; All these platforms are fighting for attention; Why can’t I just be known for my music?’ It’s so ignorant. In any era, you have to know how to communicate your art form with the world. Artists back in the day would go viral, before viral existed, for smashing up a hotel room. I’m not saying you do that intentionally, but I’m sure they did.
“The way I think about it is, artists have an infinite potential to reach all corners of the globe with their art and build fans. I can step out in most English-speaking countries in the world, and some non-English-speaking countries, and people will turn up for what I do. I’m just here in my home office in Sydney, which I’ve always been in. It doesn’t make sense. It shouldn't make sense. I’m a niche radio host who made radio shows for no one to listen to. And now I do this. I’ve found a way to express my niche interests.
“Take the group FCUKERS, they’re not ‘the face’, they don’t make video content. They’re not like ‘Hey guys, check out this’. But they’ve got an aesthetic, they’ve got a way of photographing themselves and dressing, and it feels cool. I don’t think it’s necessarily strategic, but they understand the internet. There are many ways for people to attach to your character that isn’t just ‘See what Derrick does, you should do that.’”
“If you’re thinking of it as marketing, you’re already in trouble”
I think some artists have always felt uncomfortable marketing themselves, they’re embarrassed, and find it cheesy to play that social media game of ‘Hey guys..’, but that’s what they see on their own feeds, and what’s getting a lot of views. It takes a lot more creativity to do what you’re suggesting and what people like Elijah suggest, to just experiment and make it part of the aesthetic of your sound or your ‘brand’ as an artist.
“I don’t think of it as marketing. For me it’s connection and communication. I care about the audience receiving the information I’m putting out.
“If you’re thinking of it as marketing, you’re probably already in trouble because you’re thinking of it as something that is there to help your business. It’s there to communicate with your fans. I often ask, especially if you’re emerging, ‘Would you meet fans at your merch desk? Would you meet them in the line? Would you say hello after the show?’ Of course you would. But you wouldn’t post or reply to their comments because it’s embarrassing? They’re real-life humans who care about you. There’s this idea about ‘I’m the artist so you can’t access me.’ To a large extent, that’s harder and harder to do, to just be this aesthetic, and not be relatable in any sense.
“This is not a by-design, para-social strategy. [This is] who I am.”
“I do think for the people that do well with this generation, you’re savvy with the internet. I’ve always been savvy with the internet. It’s [about having] a sense [of] internet culture, about how it moves, how it works, how people talk, how people wanna see things. I try to step people through a process of why I make decisions. It’s not strategic, I’m not like ‘Ha! Today I’m gonna make people feel like they know me more’. No, it’s like ‘Here’s a funny email I got,’ or ‘Today I’m doing something that might be weird to you, but I thought it’d be interesting because..’.
“This is not a by-design, para-social strategy. That’s who I am. I like context. I like people to know how I come to make the decisions I make.
“The hardest thing about advising artists on stuff like this is advising them. As soon as you advise them, you’re taking them out of themselves. ‘Find your own voice,’ ‘Just post’ is the worst thing you can say. When I came back [on social media], I was starting from scratch, it was just friends. When I was off it for a few years, I saw the facade of it all, and I didn’t care. And I just posted what I felt like. None of it went viral, but I was trying to go viral. I just didn’t care. And that’s a helpful place for some artists.
“This idea that you have to be curated stops you from being yourself. I often tell people: ‘Whatever you share on WhatsApp is what you should share online’. But easier said than done for some people.”
Let’s talk a bit about curation and algorithmic discovery. I often think about how blogs failed to transition into the social media era and why that happened. Obviously, the growth of Facebook and the emergence of streaming led to people requiring less curation generally from their internet experience; they could listen to any song at any time. But it’s gone full circle now – there’s too much content, there’s too much history, there’s too much of everything. People are craving some focus and curation again. But I am curious why do you think so much blogs and media struggled to transition to the social media age and now the ‘creator’ age, when what they were offering – authority, context and knowledge– should have actually transitioned quite well, which you are now proving.
“A lot of it went to hell when it was trying to cater to SEO and Google Search – the Buzzfeed-acation of the internet. Also, I was on a podcast last week and I was encouraging them to do it in video form, and they said ‘We’re not like that, we’re journalists’. I know people who did radio for 25 years and they retire or they move on and people said ‘You should do something like Derrick does’ and they say ‘That’s why I did radio, I don’t want to do anything in front of the camera.’
“It does open up opportunities for people like me because the older crew don’t want to put their face out there. I don’t even think it’s because it looks corny or whatever, they just don’t think like that. Some of the blogs did transition, but the journalist was behind the camera. They don’t want to be judged about how they dress, how they look, or how they talk. They’re the ones critiquing things or giving voice to the artist.
“I’ve seen some journalists who do say ‘Right, I’m going to do a version of what I’ve seen on the internet’, but similar to the artist thing, it comes from a disingenuous place. [The goal seems to be] ‘I’m going to succeed on the internet through video, so let me tell you a story about Frank Ocean’, but you’re not being authentic any more. There are people like me and others who are excited and understand this new medium a lot more intuitively.
“So I do think there’s a comeback in a sense of taste-making, but it becomes diluted very quickly and has almost become the Buzzfeed thing again, like ‘Top 10 house records of the year’ and I’m seeing it a lot. Everyone’s trying to excavate music history to tell a story and go viral and get popular. It’s repeating itself in a sense, which is why I’m proud of the fact that I have a long-form format that revolves around me as a person and my taste and my knowledge, versus ‘Let me just tell you something else you need to know about’.”
Do you feel algorithmic fatigue personally?
“For my followers, yes, for sure, I know that’s why people follow me. It’s an accessible way to discover niche music they wouldn’t hear otherwise. I personally don’t feel it because I’ve never used an algorithmic playlist for myself. I was staunchly against even putting my playlist on Spotify because I didn’t want it to ‘learn’ from my information. That’s private. I knew very early on that algorithmic playlists were going to hurt my taste. I am attempting to be a Panacea for a lot of people for that.”
How do you discover new music in the age of algorithms then? Are you going exclusively to record stores? Is it Bandcamp?
“Not really. It’s a variety of ways. I’ve never taken to Bandcamp, to be honest. It’s everywhere – just looking at this playlist in front of me and where I found the music; for example, one of the Korean rappers I manage posts a story, I click on it, I listen to it. I was looking up a song called ‘Space Traveller’ by James Vincent or something from the late ’70s on YouTube, and I found there was a Japanese cover of it, which I liked. I did a playlist about artists that were inspired by the sound of Joni Mitchell, and Ghostly [International] sent me a few things and then listened to those, went to the artist profiles to see what they were listening to and then you find an artist with 500 plays.
“I don’t have a method, which is funny because I have a weekly radio show. I used to be obsessed with RSS feeds and consume blogs to see what’s coming out. It’s more instinctual for me now. It just becomes a muscle that I’ve exercised for many, many years, and I’m always listening and searching for stories and connections.”
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When is Derrick getting a Substack … ???
This is great Declan 👌🏻👌🏻 love Derrick so this is really cool to read